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Introducing the Participants

Stephen, 64, Canvey Island

Occupation: Former underwriter

Political history: Usually Tory, apart from when he lived in a left-leaning London borough and voted for the Social Democratic Party

Interesting fact: His focus in insurance was kidnap and ransom: “Everyone always says that insurance is dull, but it’s far from it when you’re discussing rescuing people from South Korea because the DPRK have activated the weapon systems”

Evie, twenty-five, the capital

Profession: Psychology graduate

Voting record: In her home country, Aotearoa, she supported both progressive parties

Interesting fact: Eva has been employed as a singer on cruise ships; her longest trip was half a year, which is a long time to be at sea

Initial impressions

She: Steve seemed focused on enjoying the meal, to be open

Steve: She seemed like a very bright, well-spoken, pleasant person

She: I had a tomato and mozzarella dish, mushroom pasta, and a creamy dessert thing, it was delicious

Key disagreement

Eva: He was definitely on the side of immigration being reduced. He believes that British people who already live here, not just white British, don’t have as much access to the things that they need, because increasing numbers are entering. Whereas I just disagree that the numbers are that bad

Steve: I’m for skilled immigration, I have no desire to reside in a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant country with tepid ale. But I believe that governments have exploited immigration to fill the jobs they struggle to staff without raising wages. Wages are suppressed, so taxes have to be kept low, so we can’t do things better – spend more money on child support, on schooling, on innovation

Eva: I am not deeply informed of Brexit, because I was sixteen and not living here when it happened. He clarified it to me in a new light. He told me about “posted workers” – candidates could arrive in the UK and only be paid the wage of the country they came from

He: Macron spent two years getting the EU to do away with the scheme; it was revised in two thousand eighteen. Previously, migrant laborers coming in were undercutting local employees. Under Gordon Brown, it was petroleum staff that were imported; since then it’s been hospitality, farms. She grasped that, because she’d worked on a cruise ship and said she was earning significantly higher than workers from other countries

Common ground

Steve: It would be ideal to have a different energy source, transition from fossil fuels. I disapprove of environmental harm, I value fresh atmosphere, I love the countryside. We found consensus on a lot of that. But I said, “What do you think of the Scandinavian nation?” Their energy revenues soared after Ukraine started, they allocated those funds to develop eco-friendly systems

She: So we’re using their oil. You can see that’s an unfavorable approach to proceed. He was supportive of continuing our own oil exploration for the small amount we’ll need in the coming years. I kind of agree with him. We’re still going to rely on air travel. We both think we should be advancing to environmentally friendly options, turbine fields and water power

Dessert topics

She: We briefly discussed Islamophobia, though we avoided labeling it. He seemed concerned about extremism coming here – he did note that a lot of the people in the Arab world were radical, which I didn’t think fair. I think it’s discriminatory to make judgments based on religion

Steve: I come from the East End. I asked her if she’d been to that district, and she said it had been modernized. Naturally, I would say that: populated by professionals. But when I go down Chrisp Street market, I appear out of place. People stare at me because it’s become very Muslim. She gave a slight glance at me about that. I used the word segregated area. Eva’s got Polish-Jewish ancestry – she objects to the term, to her it denotes deprivation. I said, “No, it’s an area that becomes their own.” I consented to substitute a alternative term – maybe enclave?

She: I feel like followers of Islam are really disproportionately shown in the news outlets as doing things wrong. It appears a little bit discriminatory, or xenophobic

Conclusion

Steve: I think we separated amicably. We had a embrace at the train stop

Eva: We both said that we’d had a wonderful evening